Continuing the tradition of charging for hardware Epic 4G

28Aug/1036

Continuing the tradition of charging for hardware

Ah, finally I have time to sit down and actually write something, I apologize for the delay but my new boss has me working at all hours and even weekends!!

I've been working on a few things here and there, but I wanted to focus on Sprint's Epic 4G and the "continuing tradition" of advertising with bullshit marketing schemes that try and get consumer's to look at the dangling shiny object and not look at what they're really purchasing.

As you can see, this is a photo that I took of an advertisement that I got in the mail from Sprint. It is describing that Sprint has a tradition of "firsts" that it's continuing.

The FIRST and only 4G Super AMOLED screen in the world

Are you.. serious? That is freaking amazing! This is a historic day! Sprint has found a screen that will provide a "4G" service.. but wait, that can't be right.. a screen is just a screen, it can't use DATA right? Let's keep reading!

The FIRST 4G slide-out QWERTY keyboard

Similar to the screen, we see that Sprint has somehow combined data with hardware of their phone. It appears that this claim to have the FIRST "something" makes this better than the competition. Let's just forget that Samsung manufactured the "Galaxy S" series for all 4 carriers and the only difference between them and Sprint is that this phone has a physical keyboard AND the opportunity to use 4G service, IF you are in a 4G area.

You might ask, "So the only difference between these four devices is that one of them has a keyboard, and the rest don't?" Well, yeah, that's exactly what a consumer who doesn't live in a 4G area is going to consider when looking at these phones. Some people love hardware keyboards and some people loathe them, but that's up to the buyer.

Scenario: Billy and Susan are friends who live in New York. Billy currently has the HTC Touch Pro 2 with Sprint and Susan has the Samsung Omnia with Verizon. Both of them love their current carriers and want to purchase the latest Samsung Galaxy S series phone and stick with their current plans.

Susan goes to the local Verizon store and upgrades her plan to purchase the Samsung Fascinate and Billy goes to the Sprint store and grabs the Samsung Epic 4G.

Both of them purchased basically the same phone, but on different carriers. Susan is continuing to pay the same price that she's been paying for the last 2 years on her contract. The thing is though, is that Billy now has to budget in another $10 for "Premium Data" even though he's getting the same phone as Susan! Since they live in a 3G only area, there's no increased 4G speeds.

So, now Billy's upset at Susan because she keeps teasing him that her phone didn't cost anything "more" a month. Billy has to remind Susan that his plan is cheaper, but still.. he's upset because it's the principle.

Billy, now fueled with anger after being taunted by Susan, gets the courage to email Sprint and ask "why!?" and here's the response he received:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for writing to Dan@Sprint.com. I have reviewed and understand your concerns regarding the $10.00 premium data add-on associated with the Samsung Epic. The Samsung Epic signifies a shift in the data features and services that Sprint is able to deliver to customers today. The Epic device experience is far and away better than any other 3G device in the market because of a host of product innovations. The Epic holds a faster processor which allows better mobile broadband experiences with gaming, uploading, downloading, and connecting in addition to the massive 4.0” display with dual cameras for videos, photos, and video conferencing.

The richer data experience requires Sprint to allocate additional resources to its data networks to continue to provide an optimal data experience. The $10.00 premium data add-on is intended to help cover the costs associated with these resources and will only be assessed on customers who have purchased devices that are capable of taking advantage of this robust data experience. Customers can experience this richer data experience on either the Sprint 3G or 4G networks. Sprint notes that the required $10 premium data add-on is clearly and conspicuously disclosed in all relevant sales and marketing materials, and is directly confirmed with the consumer as part of the purchase process. Customers who do not want to pay the $10 premium data charge are always free to select from Sprint’s robust device line-up and enjoy a quality data experience.

Again, I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to address your concerns.

If you have any other questions you can contact me at (757) 555-5555. I am in the office Tuesday through Friday from 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM EST and Saturday 8:00 to 12:00 PM EST.

Thank you for your continued business and loyalty to Sprint. Have a great day!

Sincerely,
#######
(757) 555-5555
Sprint

Wait, what?! Sprint actually emailed Billy and told him that the Epic device "experience" is far and away better than any other 3G device in the MARKET, because it has a FASTER processor and a MASSIVE 4.0" display with dual cameras?

But, wait! Look at what they're saying! The Epic requires the $10 "premium data" fee because it's better than ANY OTHER 3G DEVICE IN THE MARKET. Even the phones made by the same manufacturer (Samsung) and the SAME brand - "Galaxy S".

Are they serious? Billy doesn't believe it, so he sends another email!

Dear Sprint,

1. Can you define "robust" in this terminology?

2. How will a user in a 3G area only be able to experience a "robust data experience"?

3. Does the $10 premium data add-on allow unlimited data, or does the service plan?

Sprint quickly churns out another auto-reply:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for the email response. Sprint offers customers the best 3G network experience with the best price value, and where available, the speed experience of 4G. By describing the experience as robust, we believe that the Samsung Epic will provide a rich data experience whether in the 3G or 4G Sprint network. Its features and specs make it one of the best phones available on any 3G network and provide the added benefit of being one of the two devices to take advantage of the 4G speeds where available. The $10 premium data plan is for unlimited 3G or 4G data while on the Sprint network with the Samsung Epic.

I thoroughly understand your concerns and apologize for any misunderstandings surrounding the $10 premium data fee associated with the upcoming Samsung Epic device; however this fee will be applicable should you purchase the Epic device and can not be waived or discounted.

Should you have any other questions concerning your Sprint account, please feel free to contact me at (757) 555-5555. My office hours are Tuesday through Friday from 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM EST and Saturday from 8:00 AM to 12:00 PM EST.

Thank you for choosing Sprint. Enjoy the rest of your evening!

Sincerely,
#######
(757) 555-5555
Sprint

Well... here we are again. "By describing the experience as robust, we believe that the Samsung Epic will provide a rich data experience whether in the 3G or 4G Sprint network".

Or in other words; "By being vague, we believe you won't question our unclear answers."

The last sentence though in the first paragraph is what stands out. "The $10 premium data plan is for unlimited 3G or 4G data while on the Sprint network with the Samsung Epic." If this is true, then this is big. How can Sprint come out and state that their "UNLIMITED DATA" plans are NOT unlimited with all of the phones on that plan? They are stating that you need "Unlimited, plus a 'lil extra", kinda like when you were a kid and said "Infinity+1" to outrageously declare something.

Sprint, this isn't junior high! You can't ask someone to pay for "Infinity+1" when you're selling "Infinity" at a flat rate.

At the start of the article I mentioned how Sprint was "boasting" their 4G firsts; wouldn't it be great if they could only be first in other categories?

This charts and graph was extracted from a press release by J.D. Power and Associates (publisher) and the J.D. Power and Associates 2010 U.S. Wireless Customer Care Performance StudySM–Volume 2 was the source.

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Ninja

One more thing to add. It has been said that 4G is cheaper to run right and Dan Hesse has had a relationship with Clearwire for some time.........hint, hint...
Ninja

Right now Sprint is messing up. Sprint has always been the company that masked their flaws in cool hardware...always. The cool hardware is the only way they have been competing. Their pricing has been the way it has because they were overall losing the battle against AT&T, T-mobile at 1 point, and Verizon. Dan Hesse has sold out himself as more of a business man then a cellular guru. As for the fee, I have never seen Verizon charge its customers more so they can put up more towers or implement 3g. Verizon has always been Verizon. The more expensive company......but for good reason. I stopped hearing word anymore about Sprint putting up towers to improve their network, but I always kept hearing this about Verizon. If I am wrong...prove it.
And don't think that because Sprint phones have the same other band that Verizon owns that it might as well be Sprint's band too cause it is not. I've noticed performance differences while on Verizon net with a Sprint phone and I have actually used a Verizon phone in same area and it was fine. Regardless of any agreements I'm sure Verizon reserves more Bandwidth for its own customers. (In case you care to comment on that.) I'm very familiar with throttling. ISPs do it all the time.
Sprint really should have just setup new plans for the phones and called it a 4G plan or something. Adding $10 to an already unlimited plan (and forcing it.) makes them to be liars. At least say well the normal plans have a 5GB cap (they do right?) but for $10 more they can be Truly Unlimited. This could actually be the way to go. Sprint can have their Simply Everything plans and have Truly Everything plans or called it the Trully unlimited addon which is optional for customers but not forced. Then build a campaign around how people will need this addon. Also Sprint could even limit the phone to just 3g for Simply and send an OTA update to unlock 4G for people with Trully addon AND also setup security against people getting phones with the update on Simply plans. Anyone make comments on this idea.....I encourage it...... Sprint should hire me....
Ninja

Caperi I'm inclined to believe that you are one of the people that believes this Sprint statement. You some kind of Sprint employee or something? I will repeat for you since you missed something. Typically Phone carriers if they want to add a fee for data they will just say that, that is what the fee is for on a plan that has no data. The scenario here is they are adding a fee on top of an already 'Simply Everything' plan. I'm sure legally this is illegal. It goes against each person's contract. It is also bad practice for companies to force their long time customers to change their plan in order to change their phone. A scenario like this is where Sprint will not be able to help a customer: Roger a long time customer has a phone for a long time with Sprint. Roger has insurance on his account. His phone gets stolen. His phone is no longer available and Sprint/Insurance only has newer (Android) phones and phones that are not comparable to his. According to what I have seen with Sprint, they have literally blocked the activating of the newer phones on older plans. Basically an Android phone cannot be activated on the plan this guy has. This is the same practice where the guy on this site's discount is just taken off. So Roger is given a scenario that since his phone is no longer available the only phones comparable to his is a newer Android phone which they can do but he would have to change his plan to do so.
I have seen scenarios like this already and there were laws against doing this to people. A past boss of mine was able to keep his $10 plan car phone on a new razor but it wasn't until he pointed out that he knew the exact FCC law, I think, against this and so Verizon gave him a Razr on his $10 plan. Sprint will not be able to do this due to purposely limiting their activation system/software from doing stuff like this. When I know it can be done.
Ninja

Ben Ben Ben, you do not see the bigger picture here. Sprint's method is suggesting that they are charging you extra for phone features. This just cannot be let go because if they get away with it then other companies WILL follow suit. Next thing you know you will be paying monthly for the 3d feature in the new Flat Screen TVs. The people who complain THE most are the OGs in the Smartphone/Pocket PC industry. The OGs know how the business changes. Now if YOU like payng more for stuff then that is you, be my guest, but me...paying monthly for hardware features that offer really no service is just no smart and you are too dependent on the stuff if you feel you need to pay for it all.
My Touch Pro 2 does what everything the EVO does and even better in certain areas like video FPS and I don't pay double the price. If I do decide on a newer phone and Sprint does not offer newer phone to be available on older plans then they will lose me as a customer and I will go elsewhere, pay less, and still be on CDMA with a new phone.
The point I made about companies following suit will also work in people like me's favor eventually. As the phone choices rotate, the EVO will get old, other new phones will come out, and other companies I'm sure will show me some luv.
Caperi

It's not for hardware.

"Users will typically consume more data due to the enhanced experience, and the Premium Data add-on assures they have the bandwidth to accomplish this."
Ninja

Don't get me started on the wording that a lot of 1D10Ts will fall for. A 4G screen? A 4G keyboard...ooooh nice...wait what heck is that? You think typing on the keyboard will be faster because it is a 4G keyboard? What idiot does Sprint have that is creating these misleading slogans/ads. What literary technic is he using? Bandwagon?.... lol...if this is it then the object of attention being used to attract readers is the equivalent of Milli Vanilli.
WTF!

It's become quite clear to me that Caperi is actually Dan Hesse or one of his minions in disguise trying beat us over the head with this non-logic about why we should be perfectly happy to have Sprint BS us about the fee. Nice try but I doubt anybody's falling for it, Dan...errrr Caperi.
Benw0721

lol yep thats right attack the guy because you dont agree with his thoughts. He's probably the most reasonable person who has replied and with logic and proof to back it up. Sad part is no matter what anyone says or explains it WONT BE ENOUGH for you guys who just want to complain about the fee. No answer no reasoning will be a good enough answer for you guys. You simply want to complain.
Jadawin

Because sometimes the only way you can force a company to change is by combining the voices of the many.

@Caperi - T-Mobile requires your company ID discount number (if over the phone or web) or you can show a company ID / paystub at the store. Bing, discount.

And my bill IS $85 (pre-tax); I was given a discount for switching carriers. My buddies have also received discounts.

"Sprint's fee has a justified explanation" - Sorry, but the explanation is a lie. That's what this WHOLE thing boils down to; we were being lied to and we are calling them out. End of story. Have a nice day.
Caperi

"Users will typically consume more data due to the enhanced experience, and the Premium Data add-on assures they have the bandwidth to accomplish this."

Makes perfect sense to me. I have no idea how you can say that is "unjustified" unless you know the specifics of how much is costs for them to provide extra data, the statistics of how much more data Evo/Epic users are likely to use, and then manage to relate those.
Benw0721

thank you for proving my point no explanation will ever be enough. Any explanation given will always be a Lie because you dont like it.
Airen Edebiri

Well it's not necessarily that we "don't like it", it's that it doesn't make sense, or it seems to leave some big glaring loophole unfilled.
Guesto

What the hell is a 4G Screen?
Airen Edebiri

Maybe a screen that weighs 4 grams?
Caperi

My guess is that by "The Epic device experience is far and away better than any other 3G device in the market" they meant their own market - i.e. the phones offered by Sprint. That would fall in line with their statement from that other email that you received saying something along the lines of "users will typically consumer more data [than other smartphones] due to the enhanced experience".

Then, "The $10 premium data plan is for unlimited 3G or 4G data while on the Sprint network with the Samsung Epic." is the same thing as was said in the rest of the quotation from the email I mentioned above - "users will typically consumer more data due to the enhanced experience and the premium data add on ensures that they have the bandwidth to accomplish this". The $10 makes up for the anticipated increase in average data usage - EXACTLY the same thing all other companies do in regards to multimedia phones versus smartphones, here it is on another level (smartphone & multimedia phone versus elite smartphone pricing).

You're being completely unreasonable if you expect a company to charge the same amount for a portion of customers who use amounts of data that is measured in megabytes (multimedia phone users) versus customers who use hundreds of megabytes (smartphone users) versus customers who use amounts of data measured in gigabytes (elite smartphone users, the tier which Sprint has decided to begin with the Evo and Epic, and they are the first to do so since they ignored the multimedia -> smartphone data difference).
Outrageousjon

Caperi... You LOVE Sprint, and they can do no wrong. We get it! Although I suspect you might even draw a paycheck from their PR division. Aside from all that, I just don't agree with you. You have some valid points, and some skewed logic. In the end everything comes down to perspective. I feel that they are being deceptive, or at least shady. Their validations are weak at best, and I don't like feeling like anyone is trying to take advantage of me. I consider it a fact that it is wrong to ASSUME that everyone that gets one of these phones will use more data. If anything they should give me the option to choose. I'm proud to say that I am very nearly done with Sprint. I did pick up the Epic yesterday. It is a great phone, but I don't think it is worth committing myself to Sprint for another 2 years at an additional cost of $240 over my current rate. It is nice, and easier to use for more things, but NOT worth $10 more per month than my Samsung Moment. My solution is that I am going to use it for another 28 days and return it to Sprint, making sure they know why. I'll cancel my renewed contract (already made sure this was possible). Then I'm going to buy a Vibrant and sign up with T-Mobile without any contract at all, paying no more than I currently pay Sprint. I could really care less about the front-facing camera (that I'll never use) and the keyboard (that I'll rarely use). I'll get a better price and better customer service and have the ability to switch any time I like. All those out there that are just as displeased with this policy as I am need to show Sprint in a way they will notice. They don't really care if we b*tch and moan, but if enough people ditch their service for another carrier they'll have to start rethinking their stance.
Caperi

You'd be hard pressed to find a single company in today's world that isn't at least slightly "deceptive" or "shady", much less a successful company. Take, for example, the "unlimited data" claims of T-Mobile and Verizon. I believe they state "unlimited" everywhere (or at least in several places) except their TOS, where they mention 5GB data caps. At least AT&T comes right out and says 2GB.

They don't "assume". They've probably become aware of a trend to using more data as the phones become more capable, and decided to start drawing the line here. Perhaps they missed the mark and should have started as soon as Androids started showing up, since the gap in ability from Android to Android isn't as large as, say, Blackberry to Android (I've never used a Blackberry but I imagine it to be much more limited).

T-Mobile isn't cheaper. You might save 10$/month (T-Mobile unlimited talk/text/5GB data = 79.99 no contract) over Sprint (Sprint unlimited text/data/mobile-mobile + 450 landline minutes + premium data = 89.99), but you're paying an extra $250 to buy the Vibrant instead of the Epic with a contract, which adds up to slightly above $90/month if you keep it for 2 years. If you switch out phones before 2 years are up, the difference increases, and it doesn't seem as if you're a guy who'd keep his phone for 3 years+. Yeah, the difference is practically negligible, but Sprint is still "cheapest".

My point is that Sprint's prices with the $10 fee are still EXTREMELY competitive and you cannot consider them at all greedier than their fellow competitors, who, as I've mentioned, have the exact same fees and just call them something else or hide them so no one notices. You're displeased with this policy yet you're going to turn around and take the fee based on the EXACT same principle from T-Mobile.

Also interesting how you say "[The Epic] is NOT worth $10 more per month than my Samsung Moment", but you're going to go pay $11 more per month for a phone you agreed was [slightly] inferior to the Epic. Unless being able to switch phones practically every year is a huge deal to you, or the slightly (I say slightly because to me it seems T-Mobile's customer service rankings are minimally better than Sprint's as stated in a post below, even if they are "best" and "worst" respectively) worse customer service which you've probably called once in the past year is a deal breaker, that doesn't make sense to me.
Outrageousjon

It still amazes me how some people think the fact that others knowingly do things that are wrong choose to consider that to be validation for them to follow suit. One mans wrong doing doesn't make your actions any less inappropriate. People commit unspeakable crimes every day (murder, rape, physical abuse, etc...), but that doesn't make it okay for others to do the same. The logic applies to the ethics of corporations. Their need and/or desire to be profitable also in no way reduces their ethical burden. Can we just kill the "everyone else does something similar" argument right now? Although, I will say that they (at&t and t-mobile) are at least more clear about their terms and not hiding behind vague phrasing and flimsy validations. Furthermore, Lets just be realistic when we compare Sprint to T-Mobile. You can't compare the Sprint 450 minute plan to their Unlimited plan and consider them equal. Now, the 500 minute plan (with unlimited data) is only going to cost me $59/month. It'll be reduced even further ($49/month) if I remove unlimited texting and use my google voice account for texting instead, which I already do anyway. It's a lot easier to read and respond to them at the computer if I'm already sitting there anyway, and no more difficult on the phone than standard SMS apps. So I'm down to $49/month, compared to Sprint's $79/month for the same amount of minutes. I also get better customer service, and I'm not bound to the carrier or phone if my situation/desires change. So when the newer/bigger/faster phone comes out I can easily sell mine for a substantial portion of what I have invested in it and move forward without much complication. I can buy the phone online for around $300 (already found one on craigslist), which is only $50 more than I pay Sprint for the epic (less if I factor in my 9.25% sales tax). Yet another bonus is that I can unlock GSM phones and use them on both carriers or on international providers when I travel. It seems to me that I'm improving in every possible way and sacrificing nothing by leaving Sprint behind. Oh yeah, and it turns out I'm getting a 20% corporate discount through my employer as well. Does anyone really need a better excuse to shop around and quit allowing Sprint to dick them around?
Caperi

If you don't like what all the providers are doing, don't buy a phone. Obviously that's not an option for most people, including you, I guess. Since they are all practically equal in their lack of ethics, ethics are hardly a factor unless one of them is doing something majorly different than the others.

"Clear about their terms"? For some reason, when they say "Smartphone data fee" everyone is content to just take the fee and make up their own explanations, but when Sprint says "Premium data fee on our elite smartphones" everyone demands explanations. I don't feel like searching, but I'd like to see how T-Mobile justifies their difference in Smartphone data pricing and multimedia phone data pricing.

Yes, Sprint's 450 minute plan and T-Mobile's unlimited plan can be considered equal just how you consider Sprint's unlimited data equal to T-Mobile's 5GB of data. For the normal person, 450 minutes of landline calling + unlimited mobile to mobile is more than enough, nobody uses landlines extensively anymore (yet you still get nearly 8 hours of it per month). Same thing for data - a normal person is not going to use more than 5GB.

If 500 minutes is enough for all your calls, mobile and landline, great, you save money, go to T-Mobile since Sprint doesn't have any similarly based plans. As far as I can see from T-Mobile's list of plans, you can't have data with no texting. Though, you're right, T-Mobile is cheaper if you can afford to have fewer minutes and you buy the phone from a third party. If T-Mobile had a phone I liked, I would probably have gone to them if I had thought about their no contract plans and was willing to take the time to buy (and later sell) the phone (I'll probably try go that route next time). 20% discount? T-Mobile advertises up to 15%, I doubt they would advertise less than you can actually get.

But, T-Mobile being cheaper for certain people doesn't change what this site is about. You're standing there attacking Sprint's fee when it's just as prevalent, if not more so, within other carriers. What you said, "One mans wrong doing doesn't make your actions any less inappropriate.", is correct. The problem? NONE of them are committing a wrongdoing. Sprint's fee has a justified explanation just like AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile's fees have a justified explanation. You and others are saying that you're leaving Sprint because of the fee, yet you're taking the same fee from whatever other carrier you sign up with. For those who aren't leaving and are simply seeking an explanation - It has been explicitly stated in an email to this site's owner (See the second quoted block in the FAQ at the top of this page: "Users will typically consume more data due to the enhanced experience, and the Premium Data add-on assures they have the bandwidth to accomplish this.") and Sprint's public explanations have also explained it, although there they've added a multitude of superfluous details.
Outrageousjon

1. Other carriers have different tiers for data for different types of phones. It is perfectly understandable that individuals will use more data on phones that are built for data-heavy tasks when compared to more simple feature phones. That seems legit to me. They state it clearly and in no uncertain details, so I don't hold that against them. I do think that AT&T's decision to draw the line at 2gb is harsh, but still than most will need. Sprint differs in that respect. It was once a positive thing. To them a data package was a data package, regardless of your phone. For those of us with smartphones it was great. I would be willing to bet that is why many of us on this site went with Sprint to begin with. My qualm is the fact that now they are making a distinction with these newer phones. I would consider it ethical if they started making changes with all new contracts and cease calling their non-premium data "unlimited". It seems obvious that you can't sell someone something that is without limit and then charge them more because they COULD use more than others. I consider it shady at best, fraudulent at worst. If you can't see the logic in that you are blind or willfully ignorant.

2. Spoke with T-mobile support over the phone yesterday and received confirmation of both the discount and the fact that you can remove texting for a savings of $10 (though that is not listed on their site). They also don't charge any more for smartphone data on the "Even More PLUS" plan I'll be getting.
Caperi

"My qualm is the fact that now they are making a distinction with these newer phones. I would consider it ethical if they started making changes with all new contracts and cease calling their non-premium data "unlimited"."

Like I stated somewhere else, I'd rather have the simplicity of Sprint's handful of plans along with a fee on the end rather than a huge web of if this/then that/else this/or that. As far as I can tell, your main beef with Sprint is that they seem to almost be hiding the fee, which I don't agree with seeing as I see it mentioned practically everywhere. Oh, and their non-premium data is still unlimited.

"It seems obvious that you can't sell someone something that is without limit and then charge them more because they COULD use more than others"

That's why life insurance companies charge more for people that have heart problems, work a dangerous job, etc. Same concept here: they charge more because they believe the person is likely die before a perfectly healthy person based on factors they've been given. Sprint charges more because they believe the customer is likely to use a significant amount of extra data based on the factors they know.
Caperi

1) Smartphones are likely to entice your average user (through their processing power, capabilities, etc) to use significantly more data than your average internet-capable phone
2) Verizon sees this and decides to charge $30 with a 5GB cap (versus $10 for 25MB data on basic phones).
3) AT&T sees this and decides to charge $25 with a 2GB cap (versus $15 for unlimited data on basic phones).
4) T-Mobile and Sprint decide that they love their customers too much and that they won't charge extra for smartphone data, although T-Mobile still has its 5GB soft cap versus Sprint's unlimited.
5) "Elite" smartphones come out. 1GHz processors, practically tablet-like screens, etc. The average user is much more inclined to use this type of phone as a computer rather than a PDA as they would do with a BlackBerry or the like. Result: Much more data is used.
6) Sprint, striving to be able to afford to keep unlimited data, issues a $10 fee for the latest and greatest computer-like phones.

What do I see here? Sprint didn't take the easy way out and cap data use in addition to charging more for smartphones initially. Verizon, in effect, charges a whole $30 extra for owning a smartphone (ANY smartphone, not just the elite) versus a basic 3G capable phone (and yes, I'm excluding the $10 for 25MB part because 25MB is next to nothing this day and age). AT&T charges an extra $10 to ALL smartphone users. Sprint jumps on the train late, but to its credit, doesn't begin to charge ALL smartphone users, just those with elite smartphones (which again, if you've forgotten, are likely to use up more data than the average smartphone). T-Mobile is the only carrier remaining who doesn't differentiate smartphones from basic phones, however they do have a cap in place which protects them from the heaviest data hogs.

How I see it is... Verizon is #4 (charges most) in charges for smartphone users, and only #3 in the amount of data it provides. At&t is #3 in charges for smartphone users, and last, #4, in the amount of data it provides. Sprint is #2 in charges for SOME smartphone users (if you're using an older, not as capable smartphone, you're tied for #1), and #1 in the amount of data it provides. T-Mobile is #1 in charges (zero charges), #2 in data provided.

The winner is Sprint, T-Mobile a close second and worth consideration if you're not a heavy data user. Sprint should be one of the LAST companies on your mind if you're going to complain about extra fees.

I have a feeling that whoever responds to this post (if anyone) will either completely ignore 90% of what I said and/or will make an irrelevant statement ("But I don't use any more data on my Evo than my Moment!!!@!@!" -- guess what, you don't represent the average, and be happy Sprint granted you the best cost for your Moment IN ADDITION TO the best data service).
Ninja

Caperi you right but the problem here is in doing so Sprint even forces its long time customers to pay more for the new phones when other companies do not. Where is the appreciation for these customers? So the take-it-in-the-A$$ analogy fits. Get this... Sprint rides a tight rope with other charges they figured they could add on peoples' bills. One example is the extra $5 if you don't change your payment method to auto-pay. What a load of BS. People's plans are still the same on the same Sprint network, which uses a frequency that does not penetrate walls very well and is just not as nationwide as they say even when your phone is on Verizon's net.
Not having any data cap......so what. if you use over 5GB of data on your phone then you are on the damn thing toooooo much. think about how much data 5GB actually is. Only tethering would justify going over that limit but Sprint charges more for that too. (Tries to...) I find it annoying having to use the phone to search for information, even the EVO with its larger screen. I'm finding out having to look for information on these smaller screen throughout the day adds to the amount of stress each day. The numerous issues with website formatting on the phones' screens. 1 example is the new Bing app. It is not as good as the older Live Search app. It is more of a 3rd party browser. If you are using more than 5GB of data a month then you r better off just bringing your laptop with you. The time it takes on the phone to find info you are looking for and really be done faster on the laptop. Now this is my experience with phones and Im no Noob. I dont care what any1 says but all the features Sprint talks about do not work in no way as well as they say, the experience being Richer yet longer and also dont kill yourself while trying to use all these features while on the go, say driving.
Caperi

"Caperi you right but the problem here is in doing so Sprint even forces its long time customers to pay more for the new phones when other companies do not."

Sprint charges more for switching from smartphone -> elite smartphone. Everyone else charges more for multimedia phone -> smartphone, same thing.

"Only tethering would justify going over that limit but Sprint charges more for that too. (Tries to...)"

What? Where? The Evo comes with built-in tethering via HTC Sync, and I believe the Epic comes with it using Samsung's software too. Wifi tethering is irrelevant.

" I find it annoying having to use the phone to search for information, even the EVO with its larger screen. I'm finding out having to look for information on these smaller screen throughout the day adds to the amount of stress each day."

I completely disagree, but you're entitled to your own OPINION.

" If you are using more than 5GB of data a month then you r better off just bringing your laptop with you."

As if I'm going to whip out a laptop while walking around a building, sitting in a waiting room, etc. That and I wouldn't have internet everywhere.

"The time it takes on the phone to find info you are looking for and really be done faster on the laptop."

False. I have to stop whatever I'm doing, go to my laptop, turn the laptop on, open a browser, navigate, and then reverse the whole process could by done by the tap of a power button, tap on the browser icon on Widget Locker, slide down the lock screen, navigate, and another tap on the power button. The only time I would use a laptop is if I needed it for an extended period of time.

"and also dont kill yourself while trying to use all these features while on the go, say driving."

That's why there's voice features on most phones... Hard to believe your "I'm no noob" comment.
Jouche132

Oh yes thank you so much Sprint!!!!

Caperi, might be right about the monthly fees. However....

Sprint has been consistently ranked as the worst in comparison to its competition, in voice quality, customer service, and internet speed. Not only would I expect a discount from Sprint on its elite pocket PCs I would demand it. That includes not paying a 10$ toll.

It also doesn't answer why you'd have to pay 10$ for the phone after spending 500$ to buy it. Why not add that in as part of the monthly plan, or stick it into a data plan, or wait until 4G covers a reasonable amount of areas. Other carriers allow for GSM unlocked phones to use their network, that means I could take my phone elsewhere. Not so for Sprint which uses CDMA and does not allow the phone to be used with any other carrier.

Poor service, a phone you never stop paying for that CAN'T be used anywhere else, and 240$ extra a year.

Not a good deal.
Caperi

Well first of all Sprint is cheaper overall (I've seen that mentioned several times but it's always met with a resounding "it's the principle of the $10 fee, not the overall cost"), so that accounts for your voice quality, customer service, and speed. Second, as I mentioned in a post below, if I understand the ratings correctly, the gap in customer service between #1 and #4 is hardly significant -- I imagine it's hardly different in the other categories you mentioned.

Your solutions...
1) Add it in the monthly plan - That would be pointless since Sprint would have to create a duplicate of every plan just for a small portion of their customers.
2) Data plan - Sprint wants to keep it simple: a handful of basic plans with add ons for pretty much only insurance and this fee. When I was looking at other carrier's sites, it was extremely annoying to go through "How many minutes? How many texts? How much data? Insurance? Tethering enabled?" etc. Sprint's system is much simpler and reduces the chance of getting billed for something you didn't want (for example, by default AT&T throws on a $20/month tethering fee within the data section, which you'd have to notice and remove if you didn't want it). Besides, why change your whole system just because you need 10$ more from some of your customers?
3) 4G - 4G is irrelevant so I'm not sure why you brought that up.

What does being able to use the phone on other carriers have to do with what I said?

Doesn't make sense to me to buy a $500 phone to use on another carrier when they all have good, similar options which you can get for much cheaper with a contract. If you buy it with a contract and want to switch when it's over, that's pointless because in 2 years there will probably be phones that come free with a contract as good as the Evo. And $10 * 12 months/year = 120$, not $240, which, by the way, is not "extra" relative to other carriers - Sprint is still cheaper.
Jadawin

"Sprint is still cheaper."

Not when I'm paying $85/month for unlimited text + unlimited phone + unlimited data with my Vibrant...

I wanted to go with Sprint because I really, really wanted the version of the Galaxy S that had the physical keyboard. In the end, their lying combined with the fact that I am lucky enough to have decent coverage for multiple carriers persuaded me to go with T-Mobile. Fine, there may be a soft cap of 5GB, but you know what? I hardly go over 2GB to begin with.

For me, it isn't about the amount of money being spent, it is about why I am spending the money. I know what the possible reasons behind the extra fee could be, but instead of telling me the truth, they are blatantly lying to me. Think about it, you order a plain hamburger, they charge you for a bacon-cheeseburger but they hand you a plain hamburger, are you just going to eat it and shrug off the fact that you have just been ripped off?

At least I know what every single penny of my bill is for and I know that I'm getting my money's worth...

I would not be able to say the same with Sprint.

Do you hear that Sprint? You just lost another customer to T-Mobile. And guess what? There are more like me every day; I know this because I've already convinced two more people who want the Galaxy S to go with T-Mobile and they were both Sprint customers.

Time to stop the lying.
Caperi

Unlimited text + unlimited phone + "unlimited" data = $99.99 on T-Mobile. 79.99 + $300 initially if you buy with no contract which, if you keep the phone for two years, is about $92.49/month (though I doubt you'll keep it for two years if you don't have a contract, meaning it's more per month but I'll say that's the price you pay for being able to get a new phone whenever you want). Unlimited text + "unlimited" phone (you say 5GB of data is good enough and you use that as part of your argument so I'll say mobile-to-mobile calling is all I need + 450 minutes, about 50 of which get used, if that) + unlimited data = 79.99 + $10 premium data = $89.99.

Also, my bad, I made a mistake. T-Mobile DOES charge extra for smartphones. $30 vs $10, so you're paying a $20 "premium data fee" on T-Mobile for any smartphone you buy.

What? I told you why you're spending the $10. What I said was Sprint's words in another way. The way they say it appeals to simple minded people (most Americans) - "WICKED fast processor" etc. All of the hardware features cause them to add the fee BECAUSE Evo/Epic users are likely to use more data than other smartphone users (basically what I said in #5 in my first post). I know this for sure because those are practically the exact words this site's owner received in an email (which you can find mentioned in the Shrimp and Crab video, or transcribed by someone in the comments).

Does T-Mobile give employer discounts with the same ease Sprint does? I simply asked the rep when he sold me the phone and immediately got 23% off my monthly bill. I see that T-Mobile says it offers only 0-15% but it seems more complicated to achieve than how I did with Sprint. I guess that doesn't factor in for everybody, but to me that's a huge chunk of savings over other carriers.

I hope your friends are enjoying their higher bills.
Farhan Ahmed

The problem is that Sprint is beating around the bush when it comes to explaining the $10 fee. I can understand that they would try to use simple language to appeal to simple minded people, but when someone comes right out and asks for clarification, you should be clear in your response.

From your #5 statement: "5) "Elite" smartphones come out. 1GHz processors, practically tablet-like screens, etc. The average user is much more inclined to use this type of phone as a computer rather than a PDA as they would do with a BlackBerry or the like. Result: Much more data is used."

It seems clear to me that you are saying that the $10 fee is for more data being used than normal, correct? The problem with this is that the data use is supposed to be unlimited in their Simply Unlimited plan. How can you charge people extra on an unlimited data plan for using more data?

Another problem is, and this is from all carriers, that they force us to buy data plans and then complain about usage and then limit or charge more for it. Its a vicious circle that they've created and we're paying the price for. I didn't buy my HTC HD2 to check my emails or browse the web on my phone. There are other features of smart phones that you can use without having to use a data plan.
Caperi

"but when someone comes right out and asks for clarification, you should be clear in your response." : To me, it was fairly clear when it was explained to this site's owner in an email: (second block of quoted text) http://explainthefee.com/categ.... Mainly the quote "Users will typically consume more data due to the enhanced experience, and the Premium Data add-on assures they have the bandwidth to accomplish this." Hard to get any more clearer than that.

"The problem with this is that the data use is supposed to be unlimited in their Simply Unlimited plan. How can you charge people extra on an unlimited data plan for using more data?" - I said this in another post:

"You're being completely unreasonable if you expect a company to charge the same amount for a portion of customers who use amounts of data that is measured in megabytes (multimedia phone users) versus customers who use hundreds of megabytes (smartphone users) versus customers who use amounts of data measured in gigabytes (elite smartphone users, the tier which Sprint has decided to begin with the Evo and Epic, and they are the first to do so since they ignored the multimedia -> smartphone data difference)."

Why do they give Evo/Epic users "unlimited data" then throw on the "premium data" fee? It would simply be too much of a headache to change the wording of all their plans and add exceptions - much easier to simply add a fee for certain users. Is that false advertising? No more than Verizon and T-Mobile's claims of "unlimited" data. Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but since they're both doing wrong by hiding little exceptions behind the main point of what they advertise, I won't take that into account since not buying a phone isn't an option for me.

"I didn't buy my HTC HD2 to check my emails or browse the web on my phone. There are other features of smart phones that you can use without having to use a data plan." - Hmm, never thought about that, but it does make sense. They obviously don't do it because that loses them money, but if one company starts offering it (I bet someone will decide to take that step some day), everyone will.
Caperi

And I don't see why everyone is making such a huge deal about the FIVE PERCENT drop from T-Mobile's customer service rating to Sprint's... To me that's like saying "My 78% C+ score makes me so much better than you and your 73% C! HAH!", but maybe I just don't understand how the rankings work, anyone want to explain?
Jouche132

But then Billy got smart and added on an insurance plan and downloaded free software to overclock his old 3G found to roughly 800Mhz, which consumed only slightly more battery power but increased the speed of his phone 10 fold, and increased the Glyph memory cache.

By the time Billy was done he was having experiences he never had before, and I don't mean puberty, he was seeing the internet faster, using applications quicker, and was generally pleased with his phone which he can keep for eternity without paying 10$ a month to use it.

Yes, Billy you are a smart boy.
Aikanae

"Simply everything" isn't so "simple" or "everything" after all. That is a problem with many consumer devices now. Some phones won't allow bluetooth connections with home computers, some plans advertise "unlimited web" but allow connections only to THEIR website, some won't allow ringer downloads (they want $5 for a 20 second clip of a song that could be bought for $1 and have the whole song).

But the industry keeps growing. I can't imagine not having a cell phone. How many carriers are there? 5 or 6? That's what happens when industries are allowed to monopolize. Thanks "deregulation"!!! So much for the free market myth.

I haven't read anything about Sprint's #1 tactic; "Wear the customer down until they give up and just pay the stupid *%^$ fee." Keep going.
Billy

Hmmm ...

'Billy's upset at Susan because she keeps teasing him that her phone didn't cost anything "more" a month.'
'Billy, now fueled with anger after being taunted by Susan, gets the courage to email Sprint and ask "why!?" '

Sounds like Billy has been upset and fueled with anger before by lots of women over lots of things.
Billy definitely needs help, and not because of his cell service provider.
I hope Billy gets some help.
bsnguy

They were also the first to charge $10 on top of an "everything" plan for a better experience. I guess "everything" doesn't imply it's useful. Keep up the pressure! I do it, too, but I'm as frustrated as you and Sprint is very much screwing its customers with this fee and I'm busy, now, looking for another carrier. It's hard. They all screw you in different ways. I used to think Sprint was the only one that didn't try to screw me, but that's over. I agree that if they were just honest about what the fee was for and were more upfront about it I would be less ticked off... it just feels like "bend over and take it, buddy."

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